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February 26, 2008
Florida: a non-sunshine state of mind
I'm a pretty easy-going guy most of the time. But, after spending a week in Florida I found my hackles were starting to get up over the lack of solar domestic water heaters. Hey Sunshine State, what's the deal?
Attending the International Builders Show in Orlando was a great excuse to escape the sub-freezing temps of Pittsburgh. Once in Orlando, Stacy and I decided to spend a little time touring the area, checking out the beaches, and basically taking in the sunny scene. And sunny it was! Even though the locals may find high temps in the low 70's to be a bit of a bracer, to us it was de-light-ful.
All that sunshine got me thinking about solar water heaters, how great they are, how much energy they save, the rapid return on investment, and the overall common sense logic behind using solar radiation to power domestic hot water. But as we drove from destination to destination, I was at first surprised, and then confused, and finally confounded at how few solar panels I saw on the roof tops. Even new, large, developments were void of the technology.
Maybe they just don't use hot water in Florida.
Once back in frosty Steel City I called up a pal of mine who is the director of sales for a prominent Florida solar water heater manufacturer. I asked him why there isn't a solar water heater on every home and boy, did I get an education.
"No one thinks about solar hot water down here because they've never had it before. It's one of those things where, if you've lived in a house with some panels on the roof that save you money day in and day out, you can't imagine going back and paying full price for your hot water," he said. "But, if you've never experienced it, it's just out of sight out of mind."
That's odd, I thought solar was really starting to catch on.
"It's catching on, but not with homeowners. Almost every major city down here now has some sort of incentive plan to promote solar domestic water," my friend said. "In the city of Jacksonville, for instance, the Sierra Club started a solar incentive that takes $800 off the installation of a system as long as it is installed by a licensed Florida contractor. Then the state offers a $500 rebate on top of that, and they've extended the Federal rebate so you get a 30 percent tax credit as well."
As he spoke I started to do the math. Assume, for the sake of example only, a basic batch-style passive system, fully-installed would cost around $4,000. Between the rebates and tax incentives, the net cost to the homeowner could dip to about $1,800. That means with even moderate use, like for an empty nest household, a solar hot water system could be making money for the homeowner in less than five years.
That's right, making money. Not only do your monthly expenses drop, but your home value rises.
So why all the foot dragging? What about all the media coverage of climate change, energy independence, and the rising costs of fuel? How can it be that a state that boasts the highest population of retirees in the nation (23 percent of Florida's population, or about 4.1 million total) isn't proactive about reducing monthly utility bills of those living on fixed incomes? If the citizens don't know about the benefits of solar, what is the government doing to educate and spread the word. Lower utility bills and reduced consumption of energy are in the public interest, right?
"Down here the state is just missing the boat. The Florida State Energy Office set up some great incentives, but they didn't spend a dime advertising it," he said. "All this money is available through 2010 for anyone installing a solar system, but no one knows about it."
I checked out the program and it looks like it may have been under-funded right out of the gate. The website says you'll get your $500 rebate, you will just have to wait on it for awhile. But he was right, there is money out there if you know where to look.
"There are a lot of programs out there for anyone wanting to go solar for domestic water, just check out www.dsireusa.org, they have a huge data base of state incentives for all kinds of renewable energy choices. The money is available but it requires the homeowner to do a lot of work to discover them. Once you start filling out the applications it isn't that bad, but finding the incentives and hearing about these programs can be tough."
Alright, I told him, I've heard the problems, but as a player in the solar game, I had to ask him if he had any real solutions to get people to wake-up to the benefits of solar.
"Yeah, some one should convince the solar industry to advertise. Most solar energy companies are small and don't have the budget for advertising, but they need to know that the burden is on them. No one is going to come to the rescue and suddenly start talking about how great this technology is. If we don't get the word out, start going door to door, it will never catch on.
"You know," he continued, "every time I read an article in newspaper or catch a headline on the television, all they talk about is PV (photovoltaic) energy, the media never mentions domestic hot water. Yet within the scheme of solar energy, domestic water is the biggest bang for the buck and fastest return. Passive heaters have no moving parts, require almost no maintenance, and south of the Mason Dixon line there's really very little chance of freezing. I'm baffled as to why they aren’t mandatory on every home."
My friend was baffled, I was confused, and Florida is behind the curve.
Posted by Andrew Hunt at February 26, 2008 12:14 PM
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Comments
You answered part of your own question. As you stated many,many people are retired and there is some work needed to be done on the panels. Most retired people don't climb roofs! Another fear is the bad hurricanes and occasional windstorms and tornadoes. We are also in a resession no matter what Washington says or not. Couple that with work cutbacks,healthcare costs and now the prospect of paying $4.00 a gallon for gas which will raise the cost of literally everything and your wondering why we don't have solar??? Dah...
Posted by: Mike at March 4, 2008 4:53 PM
Unfortunately, home owner associations discourage the installation of solar panels. Most home owners down here think the panels are ugly and negatively impact home values. Many communities are deed restricted and until public opinion changes, it will be an uphill battle to install any sort of solar panels in any way visible from your neighbors home. All sorts of environmentally sound practices like xeriscaping and saving water in rain barrels are prohibited by the "condo nazis". I tired of fighting the prevailing attitude, so I have recently moved from that sort of neighborhood. Ist on my list, low tech (and low cost) rain barrels. Then I will at least be installing solar hot water at my new residence. We have so many retirees that can't see there might be a better way for them and the environment. Also, homes being offered by most builders don't offer solar energy solutions in new housing, the consumer must demand the option as an expensive upgrade. Sadly, we do have a way to go.
Posted by: judith at March 4, 2008 5:02 PM
One of the problems I've run across on solar panels being used in Florida is the insurance end of the game. Most policies exclude damage to solar panels so the expense can be an ongoing one depending on the weather. This is especially true if you use the solar panels for your swimming pool. Just another end of the game that most people don't look at.
Posted by: Steve at March 4, 2008 6:04 PM
Did anyone mention to the people having a fit that there are no solar heaters could be because most people in FL don't have to pay money to water their lawns, etc because they have well water because of the sea level of the water in FL? What they save on that water, they probably don't feel the need to spend more on setting up solar energy water heaters. Also, just because it called the "sunshine state" doesn't mean it sunshines 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. As someone earlier mentioned, there is hurricane season and the other many normally rainy days.
If that was Arizona, I could understand their "fits". But it's not. It's a tropical state.
Posted by: tami at March 4, 2008 8:18 PM
I have a solar panel on my roof as part of a solar water heater system. The panel's cover is not glass, so it won't break. However, I no longer use the solar system because the water never got hot enough to enable the dishwasher to do a good job washing the dishes; I had to augment with a tankless water heater. When the tankless water heater broke I replaced the dishwasher with a new one of another brand that has a built in temperature booster. I also turned up the temperature on my regular large water heater to scalding; that means its heating element is on all the time, but at least now the dishes are clean.
Back in the forties, Florida utilized a passive solar water heater system, wherein the hot water heater was on the highest peak of the roof, strapped to a chimney; the solar collector was at least 4 feet below it, and the whole thing worked by capillary action. When I moved to Miami in the sixties there were still two companies doing it and listed in the yellow pages; at least one was a roofing company. They are both long gone now. It seems to me to be a pretty good system, and unlike mine, simple with no pumps or moving parts, which means ZERO ENERGY BILL for the owner to have hot water. Seems to me, with today's improvements in technology, some smart fella ought to start up the business again.
You are right-- it's a disgrace for South Florida not to be using mostly solar energy. The Florida Legislature should mandate that builders offer passive solar hot water systems on new buildings, and give the builders and buyers strong incentives to accept it.
Posted by: Gail Feddern at March 5, 2008 12:09 AM
Great comments from all, I am owner of multiple homes in Florida and Ca where I spend equal time in both places. I already have solar panels on my roof for heating the pools. I purchased both homes with the systems already in place. Two things come to mind for me. First can I use what I have to integrate it into the water heater system? The second thing that comes to mind is how these new waterless water heaters are going to be common place in all home in just a decade or two. Is that not going to make the solar water heater decision a moot point?
Posted by: SEAN WILSON at March 5, 2008 1:33 AM
My husband and I would like to install a solar water heater that we have made ourselves, but we have been unable to find any directions to do so on the DIY type sites. Back in the 70s many people made their own, including family and it didn't become a major project filling out forms and waiting for rebates. There is no incentive beyond a personal one to install one here in Florida. We have done many home projects including designing and installing bathrooms, so I know the project is not over our heads.
***Thanks for the comment! You might want to check out the info over on the diynetwork.com site on installing solar panels. Here is a link: http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/he_diagnostics/article/0,,DIY_13893_2277493,00.html
***
Posted by: Melba at March 5, 2008 8:12 AM
All those rebates and incentives and the cost could dip to $1800? And you still need another water heater as a back up. Only an idiot can think that this makes sense for people on a tight budget.
The public wants to do the right thing but the huge prices being charged by the "approved list" of manufacturers and installers for what is a fairly simple installation is where the problem lies. The rebates and incentives just make the profit larger. The net cost to the homeowner is what the cost should have been in the first place.
Maybe the new housing slump will change this a little as everyone scurries to keep working. One can only hope!
The exact same problem exists in Florida with hurricane windows and awnings. The windows and awnings are charged at 2 and 3 times the suggested retail price when purchsed from the "approved list" of installers (if you want to get any rebates or incentives).
Clearly the only way for us to have solar hot water (or hurricane windows or hurricane shutters) is to shop around, buy it yourself, and install it yourself (and forget about the rebates and incentives entirely).
Most people don't have the time or skill to do this. So when the water heater stops working you have it replaced for $500 or less and things just stay the same.
Why are you so surprised?
Posted by: Clyde Kleckner at March 5, 2008 9:31 AM
I have had a solar panel system for over 13 years with mainetance free" stinking super hot water", that lasts 3 days if there is no sun because the tank is an extra large 85 gallons. A separate smaller panel drives a dc motor that keeps circulating water. We estimate a savings of over $53 per month, that is over $8268 saved since we have had the home.Even during hurricane Wilma, (21 days no electricity) we had hot water.
Posted by: Art Westergren at March 5, 2008 11:36 AM
Clyde hit the nail on the head. Many people living in Florida are on fixed incomes, and quite frankly, a five-year wait for a return may come too late. Also, as stated in the article, many older residents are unfamiliar with solar heaters because there has been no advertising. To top it all off, even if someone were interested in installing solar panels, they would have to be wary of installers who might take advantage of older Floridians. Expect the status quo for some time here in the Sunshine State.
Posted by: Deco at March 5, 2008 12:53 PM
judith, Steve, Clyde, and Deco have the majority of the problem covered here in florida. Repressive, regressive, counterintuitive thinking is being used by those in the position of driving the wholesale implementation of any solar product. Homeowners associations restrict them, insurance policies restrict them, profiteering restricts them, bureaucratic hegemony of ambivalence towards the benefits to the citizens impedes them.
Our trashed economy here in florida does not encourage it's citizens to spend such lavish amounts on things like that while they are having to decide whether to pay the mortgage or buy food and gas for the month, or pay for health insurance. Solar panels don't seem so important at that point. It would be nice if we could all be born into a wealthy dynasty, but some of us are cursed to be destined to live in the "REAL" world, and actually find and hold "real" jobs for a living.
Posted by: Robert2 at March 5, 2008 2:46 PM
Okay $53/month savingss, that great but not in my case. I have a $300+ a month electric bill. The big draw will be from the AC. Even when the house is empty I need to keep the termostat at a certain tempurature to keep the high humidity from causing mold. If I am coing to undertake a project and the hassles of tax breaks (something I have too many of anyway) it will be to lower my over all electrical bill. Any comments/ideas/suggestions on how to do that?
Posted by: SEAN WILSON at March 5, 2008 2:59 PM
We live in Jacksonville Fl and I am ashamed to say that we are indeed behind the curve on solar energy. We had a solar heating system installed when we had our pool installed eight years ago. We had our pool screened in and knew we would need it heated due to lack of direct sunlight. Having done our homework, comparing heatpumps and natural gas for the job, solar was basically a no-brainer. Outside the initial cost, which was comparable to either electric or propane (which both have a finite lifespan and maintenance issues) solar has given us many years of costfree hot water for our pool. My wife will not even get in the pool until the temperature reaches 90 degrees and she thoroughly enjoys our extended swim season. In North Florida we set our pool temperature (15,000 gallons)at 90 degrees but it kicks off early in the day and could easily reach much higher temps. Our solar contractor Mark Krenn of American Solar Energy then told us of the benefits of a passive domestic hot water system. We had that installed four years ago and been extremely happy with it. We turn our water heater off at the ciruit breaker on or about June first each spring and it stays off until late September. For those four months our domestic hot water is completely free and totally adequate (and I love a good hot shower). The rest of the year when the electric water heater is needed the usage is considerably less because the water goes through the solar heater first and raises the temp of the incoming water so the heater has to work less to raise it to its final temperature. Solar not only saves us money, its the right thing to do.
***Tom, you are certainly (personally) not behind the curve on this issue! ***
Posted by: tomeisenstein at March 5, 2008 8:14 PM
I had the same thoughts last year when we visited Maui! There should not be a house built without solar hot water in any of the states in the south. (Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, Florida, Georgia, Louisanna, Alabama...) How do we got the builders to make this a standard when they build a home. The Solar companies need to work with the builders. It would not hurt to have the government give some incentives to the builders and continue the home owners incentives to assist in making this the standard instead of the exception. Can you image what this would do to the Alternative Energy Industry,not to mention the ecomony and our dependance on fossil fuels? They assist farmers and help all sorts of businesses with goverment incentives. Why not support fully something that will have a huge positive impact on our society...Oh I wish I was younger and just starting my career!
I lived a Arizona for 13 years and had solar hot water out there in the mid 1980, it was awesome. My first trip to California showed me wind energy in action in Palm Springs and I have been obsessed ever since.
I now live in Illinois. My Husband and I are planning our retirement home which will have as much Green Technology as we can afford. I am hoping that it can be a showcase for other families to learn what they can do too. If every family can adopt one form of green technology, the earth would be a much better place. Oh see, you got me started!
Posted by: Janet Smith at March 5, 2008 11:13 PM
I was raised in Cocoanut Grove, FL (a part of Miami) in a home built in the early 40's. I have 5 siblings (2 older sisters, 2 younger sisters, 1 younger brother) Our house had one bathroom and originally only passive solar heated water with no backup heat source. We weathered many hurricanes when I was growing up and frequently we were without power for weeks at a time. I don't ever remember us being without hot water even with a household of 8 and also full of women (no slight intended gals, it actually made me a better man) However, eventually the storage tank on the roof by the fireplace chimney started leaking so my father called in a licensed plumber. This plumber said it was better and cheaper to abandon the solar system by replacing it with a modern new 40 gallon electric water heater. This occurred during the years when FPL (the power company) and the state were promoting the total electric homes concept since electric was supposed to be the cheap clean energy source. Unfortunately we were living on a tight budget so my father took the plumbers advice and from then on all activities requiring hot water had to be planned. Even with the careful planning and scheduling of dish washing, bathing, etc. we frequently had to heat water on the electric stove to wash dishes or take a hot bath. Not at all energy efficient and also a pain to accomplish. After my father passed away and I became the man of the house I had to remove the collector and related piping so we could re-roof. The system had deteriorated beyond any reasonable state of repair so I ended up recycling what parts I could. If I could afford one today I would have a solar water heating system on my current home in East Central Georgia. It just wouldn't be as passively simple as the one we had in Florida since we do get some real winters here. Affordability I think is what is a big part of the problem for most people. In my own case I thoroughly understand all the benefits to me and our planet by going solar and I can do all of the installation work myself, but I just never have had the cash to do it. All of the rebate incentives in the world and all of the payback info doesn't mean a thing if you can't afford it to begin with! One day I will be able to afford it and I'll become totally disconnected from the grid and my grandchildren will benefit from the fruits of my persistance and dreams.
Posted by: Steve Zanger at March 8, 2008 12:04 PM
